My lovely ex-wife, Lisa, looked at our dog’s food bowl today and said “It’s like feeding him McDonald’s every day.” Ouch – how do they know right where to kick you? I kid, I love you Lis.
She was half joking, but she’s right. No processed food for me, but for him Purina is cool? Probably not fair.
I just watched this video and became inspired. I remember my brother telling me that he fed his Rhodesian Ridgeback raw, whole chickens so I reached out to him about making the transition. Is it safe?
“Yes, but do it slowly over several weeks. Start with just a little bit mixed into his current food. Change the ratio every few days until 100% raw. Think 90% kibble, 10% raw at first. Then 80/20, 70/30, 60/40, etc.”
I figured a bit more research was in order before I take this step. He’s a dog, but he’s family. I wouldn’t want him to get sick at the expense of my curious, mad scientist mind.
From sciencebasedmedicine.org:
It is now generally agreed that the ancestor of the modern dog is the wolf…[the] process of domestication where our ancestors removed the ‘wildness’ from the wolf, involved thousands of years of selective breeding
I’ll buy that. My pit bull is 100 pounds and would likely kick it with a pack of wolves.
In this process, our ancestors produced hundreds of ‘different looking wolves’…our ancestors made only two basic changes to the wolf. They changed the wolf’s appearance and they changed its mind. What they did not change, was the basic internal workings or physiology of the wolf
I see where they are going, and I like it.
As a result, the basic workings or physiology of modern dogs is no different or very little different to their ancestor the wolf…The basic environment which the modern dog requires in terms of food and exercise is exactly the same as it was (and still is) for the wolf.
So I should feed my dog deer? They’re getting there.
Raw bones with meat are a major part of their diet… They eat offal such as liver and heart. They eat raw eggs. They eat decaying material…They eat a wide variety of foodstuffs. Insects, bark, soil, birds – complete with their tiny bones and feathers – whatever. Every meal they eat is totally raw. Not one skerrick of it is cooked. Ever. They eat vegetables including herbs, from the gut of their prey. This vegetable material is raw, totally crushed and partly digested. They eat feces.
Whoa, whoa, whoa.
A wolf’s diet contain almost no grains… For a wolf – not one single meal consists of dry dog food. They don’t eat canned dog food either.
Looks like I’ll be making yet another change. Not to worry. I’ll be moving slowly.
Kap
Brian says
A more convenient alternative to a raw diet for our pets:
Blue Buffalo Wilderness: http://www.bluebuffalo.com/dog-food/grain-free-wilderness
My Siberian Husky eats the heck out of the Salmon variety. Feel quite comfortable with this set of ingredients.
Gabe Kapler says
Appreciate the feedback, Brian.
Jill D. says
My dog loves all these varieties, but we don’t give him the salmon as *I* don’t like the smell.
Jeremy F says
Please keep us posted on the progress, whether it upset your pups stomach during the transition, etc. We have two dogs (90 lb lab, 185 lb Great Dane) and feed them purina as well. Cost of feeding them raw food would likely be through the roof as opposed to a 31 lb bag of food for 30 bucks a week. Perhaps a 50/50 consistent mix or kibble in morning/raw in evening would be a better option for some people who can’t afford the fully raw diet. Either way, please keep updating this! Thanks for the insight.
Gabe Kapler says
Will do, Jeremy. I hear you on the cost. Should be the other way around, huh?
Kap
Jeremy F says
No kidding, but that would make it too easy. I know you mentioned they can eat virtually anything, so perhaps another good option would be to feed them any meats that are about to go bad/have gone bad in your fridge rather than just tossing them out. If you try bad meats, definitely let me know. Could certainly decrease cost if you can work something out w local butcher.
dina says
No no no! You know how if you go to Mexico and drink the water, you will get violently ill but the locals are totally fine? That is what feeding your dog bad meat will do. They are not actually wolves, no matter how close they are genetically.
There is also the issue that animals on a raw diet do shed more bacteria, especially in their stool. Specifically salmonella is elevated, but others like e coli can also be a concern, even with perfectly fresh, prepared in human-food grade conditions.
Because of those elevated bacteria levels, if anyone in your house is immuno-compromised (very old, very young, pregnant, certain diseases, etc.) a raw diet is not a good idea. It is also why you should look for a raw producer uses a test and hold method to ensure that each batch is safe. If you’re preparing it yourself, you should use the same standards you would for your own food, with the obvious exception that you probably wouldn’t eat raw chicken and ground up organs and bone meal.
Stephanie St Amour (@sstamour) says
Immunocomprised people are going to be at risk regardless. The vast majority of bacterial food borne illnesses that have passed from dogs to people have actually come from contaminated kibble, not from feeding raw.
Caleb says
This is a reply to Stephanie’s post above mine. It won’t let me reply directly to her.
“Immunocomprised people are going to be at risk regardless.”
This is the silliest and most irresponsible thing I’ve heard in a while. Immunocompromised people will always be at risk. But I dare you go rub raw chicken all over a chemo patient and try to tell them that they’re “at risk anyway!” The goal should be trying to avoid exposure as much as possible, not blatant disregard for their needs.
And the second sentence of your post is a completely unsubstantiated claim that doesn’t pass the sniff test at all.
Matt Williams (@Matt1J) says
Feeding a dog raw food is probably cheaper in long run too. You can buy the parts that most people overlook fairly cheap.
Gabe Kapler says
Appreciate the comment, Matt.
P says
I agree with your premise Kibble = Fast food. And feeding your dogs good food.
However you made a jump that just ignores evolution. Dogs that were domesticated evolved to eat our human cooked food. I’d be careful going to a raw diet. Dogs live 8 to 12 years NOW when they have medical care.
i would figure out the calorie intake needed for your dog and his/her activity level. Find out nutrients that work well and feed them that. I would cook their food however. They are not wolves.
They are 500 years (atleast) of 8 to 12 year life spans of generations away from being wolves. How many generations are we from nomads who could not farm?
Why can’t you cook their chicken then feed it to them?
And dogs can eat grains they’ve been eating them for 500 years. Do you think their breeders didn’t keep the healthier ones? The ones who digested the humans food the best? Its not natural selection but still evolution right?
Gabe Kapler says
Always appreciate a good counter thought. I’ll definitely continue my research.
Stephanie St Amour (@sstamour) says
Grains weren’t often the food that was tossed out for the newly domesticated animals. By and large, you’re talking about scraps that humans chose not to eat; grains tend be heavily processed foods and not often discarded.
Kibble was not a prominent part of domesticated animal diets until the 1950s and on.
There isn’t really any need to cook the chicken, and the heat denatures proteins that dogs are otherwise well equipped to digest.
Caleb says
No. With the heat denaturing proteins argument. This is the problem with this entire line of logic – it’s not based in science.
I mean, you realize we eat cooked meat exclusively and aren’t dying left and right from protein deficiencies, right?
The stomach dissolves proteins… cooked, denatured, normal, whatever…into amino acids and absorbs them separately. The protein may not function normally after cooking, but it is 100% digestable and absorbable. I mean, of course it is.
You want a reason to cook chicken? Salmonella. By all means, feed raw chicken. But you increase your household’s exposure, your exposure, and your pet’s exposure to the bacteria that are otherwise killed with cooking.
mtkr says
I’ve been wondering the same thing, but I have cats. Well kittens.
dina says
Raw is great for cats, if they can handle it. I’ve tried to take 2 cats raw, but never got them more than 50% before they started throwing up every meal. So, a high quality grain free diet with the occasional raw treat works just fine. The younger they are, the easier it will be.
mtkr says
Thanks I’ve been looking at the cat food version of the Blue Buffalo Wilderness food that Brian mentioned. Haven’t made a purchase yet, but will be soon.
dina says
I feed mine Evo, which is good, as is Nature’s Variety. The important thing with cats is that it is grain free and less than 5% carb-y veggies.
Gabe Kapler says
Appreciate you both adding thoughts.
Stephanie St Amour (@sstamour) says
Cats are a little more complicated to feed raw. Cats are unable to make certain nutrients, taurine in particular, so without a specific knowledge of what you’re doing, you can miss out on important dietary requirements. It can be done, but not as casually.
Mary says
For the cats I was mostly thinking about cutting down on grains. One of mine prefers dry food to wet and I’ve been investigating products that have lower grain content and healthy ingredients.
Chris Q says
I grew up on a farm and I’ve seen a dog’s behavior change once it “tasted blood”. From what I can remember we had two different dogs start playing with the different foul or goats around the farm. They would get too rough and strike blood. They would then get overly agressive towards that animal… One of which eventually killed a couple chickens and we had to put it down.
Now I completely realize that changing your dogs diet and what I mentioned are likely completely unrelated. But at the same time, if you live in a rural community with lots of other types on animals (ones that the dogs ancestors would consider prey) … I’d be a little hesitant to try this with the fear it could trigger something a little primal in the dog and they start preying on the animals around them. I would hope the hundreds and hundreds of years of domestication would make this a non issue. But I suppose there is no guarantee either. Each dog and situation are different.
Gabe Kapler says
Thanks for the thoughts, Chris.
Stephanie St Amour (@sstamour) says
The hunting and predatory instinct tends to be vastly divorced from nutritional requirements in dogs. There really isn’t a “taste for blood”; instead, you’re talking about the dog choosing how to meet dietary needs and the ease in which it can do so.
In specific, I feed a herding dog raw and have absolutely no concerns about the impact that it has on her working livestock.
Julie Dewing says
Love seeing that pooch of yours…Maxine is smiling from above!!!
Gabe Kapler says
Hope you’re well, Jules.
Cari says
Whole Dog Journal has some great research about this. There have been several great articles regarding raw vs. kibble. They also do a yearly review of dog foods, dry and wet. At the very least, start with a high quality kibble. Many of us, myself included haven’t switched to raw, nor do I really feel the need to. However, I feed my dogs a grain free, non-GMO, high quality kibble. I tried many brands before finding the one that works for all my dogs. Wellness CORE works for them. The ingredients are sourced in the US, no meat by products, fillers, etc. I mix the regular and the low calorie. As my dogs are getting older. Sometimes, I add puréed pumpkin and yogurt as well as feed them bananas, apples and carrots. They love blueberries too. With raw, I do know you can’t just feed one food. It’s a big switch. Best of luck.
Gabe Kapler says
Much appreciated, Cari.
zgall1 says
The conclusion of the Science-Based Medicine article that Gabe links to says this “So with a dodgy theory behind it, no sound evidence of benefits, and clear risks, there is no justification for recommending raw meat based diets for dogs.”. Those are some seriously cherry-picked quotes.
Gabe Kapler says
Zgall1 is correct that the article I quoted has a conclusion not congruent with the goal of my post, and wrong that the quotes are cherry-picked. I was reading through countless articles while writing and acknowledge that I did not reach the conclusion or the wrap. I had already reached the nexus of my post and found the quotes in this particular piece to be entertaining. I stand by the post’s energy 100% after speaking to knowledgable people on the topic.
I accept full responsibility for linking an article without fully grasping it’s contents.
Kaplifestyle is a health/well being site. If folks are deciding how to feed their pets based on my recommendations after reading this line: ” I remember my brother telling me that he fed his Rhodesian Ridgeback raw, whole chickens so I reached out to him about making the transition. Is it safe?”, then those particular folks will need to do some self examination of their own.
Want thoughts on how to train like a ballplayer? Come to kaplifestyle.com. Want to be entertained with me as I stumble through how to feed my dog? Come to kaplifestyle.com.
Need sound veterinary advice? You might want to consult your vet.
Nothing but love,
Kap
Matt Williams (@Matt1J) says
Haha! Imagine a trip to the vet with Fido. “But Kap told me to feed him raw chicken!”
Caleb says
I think the main problem, Kap, is that this article that you clearly read at least some of makes a very cogent, and (as a vet myself) very accurate argument AGAINST the sections you then posted. I guess you decided to ignore the author’s arguments. Makes me question your judgment a bit. The “evidence” in favor of feeding raw is purely anecdotal, and there are valid medical (both veterinary and human) concerns with feeding raw meat in your home. I don’t think feeding raw is wrong, but it does have the potential for complications. And it is 100% not based on legitimate scientific evidence. So, with that said…carry on I guess.
Caleb says
I think the main problem, Kap, is that this article that you clearly read at least some of makes a very cogent, and (as a vet myself) very accurate argument AGAINST the sections you then posted. I guess you decided to ignore the author’s arguments. Makes me question your judgment a bit. The “evidence” in favor of feeding raw is purely anecdotal, and there are valid medical (both veterinary and human) concerns with feeding raw meat in your home. I don’t think feeding raw is wrong, but it does have the potential for complications. And it is 100% not based on legitimate scientific evidence. So, with that said…carry on I guess.
Gabe Kapler says
Caleb,
I respect that you have a serious opinion on this topic. I acknowledged my error. You should also read my comment in reply to zgall1. I’ve certainly never claimed perfection or anything close. I do try to entertain with my posts and some may have actually found this to be just that- entertainment. My dog, foos, certainly enjoyed it and his raw chicken today (smile).
Be well, my friend.
Kap
Natalie says
Look into Sojos dog food… It’s raw and grain free freeze-dried food, which you rehydrate with hot water. It’s been great for my dog with food allergies.
Gabe Kapler says
Thanks, Natalie.
Susan Otto says
The need for raw food has been breed out for generations.I feed my dog Earthborn Holistic Grain Free food. High protein with some healthy minerals added in. The bonus is it is a smaller company and all of it made in the US.
Meghan says
Gabe,
I love your blog and I’m happy you’re putting some of that nutritional passion on your dogs. I too, think a lot about what my Boston Terrier, Bella eats as well as her overall health and nutrition. Just remember, dogs are not wolves. It’s not that simple and they’ve been domesticated for thousands of years. I have heard of many people having success with raw but it’s not so cut and dry. There is also a lot of kibble out there that is an upgrade. Bella generally eats Acana which is a great dry brand. Orijen is too. We like to mix in as much whole food as possible as well as home cooked meals. Meat, veggies, fruit, eggs, good Greek yogurt. Also, high quality oils like olive and coconut. Your dog needs balance just as you do. Try looking into orijen and acana. Fresh caught food made in North American facilities.
http://www.orijen.ca
http://www.acana.com
But don’t forget to mix it up a bit with good, whole nutrition. Also, dogfoodadvisor.com is a great site to compare and research commercially available foods. As you know, exercise is key as well!
Keep up the great work! The site is awesome!
Thanks,
Meghan
Tabitha Bemis says
I believe, as with most things, all of this depends on the individual dog and owner. We live on a farm in NC with a lab, a doxie and a mutt. My lab has a cast iron tummy and tolerates everything. We feed her fresh eggs, raw meat, to include deer and dry dog food. My mutt is a very picky eater and eats only dry kibble (which she carries into a corner and hides with, she was abused and is a rescue) and my doxie could not tolerate people food, but when we put her on a reduced amount of kibble, we had a large amount of dead animals appear on the deck, squirrel, half a rabbit, deer legs (which were rather old and rotted). None of that seemed to bother her. We are very close friends with a vet who is married to an Indian. He uses his dogs to hunt and regularly allows them to eat the raccoons they have tracked and treed as part of training. We discussed a raw diet when my doxie developed fatty tumors. The high corn content in most commercial dog food contributes to this condition. She told us not to bother with Blue Buffalo as it was not proven to be a healthier diet, just a better marketing strategy. She also steered us away from meat processed for human consumption. We were left with a few options, raw diet prepared by a small shop in TN where we lived at the time, a diet consisting mostly of deer meat, and the beef we had raised and butchered, or stick with the kibble. We tried all three. Her lab work and health tests remained the same with each trial and she still developed the tumors, which we had removed twice. If you are comfortable with how/what you feed your dog and it is happy, healthy and well cared for, you are good to go. And a side note about those who are immunosuppressed…they are most likely in touch with their doctors frequently and should always ask questions if their exposure to bacteria or additional risk factors will increase. My niece is a heart transplant recipient and my best friend has terminal cancer, they know what is a normal risk and what should be run past their docs. They would never increase their risk to any type of infection without consulting the appropriate medical provider. All of this is, of course, only my opinion, based on my experience.
Health and Happiness,
Tabby
Dan says
Little bit late to the party so I apologize. However, as a dog owner of two raw fed dogs, I need to input some comments to help people understand the topic from all angles, as the above commenter’s seem to be mostly kibble feeders. The overwhelming sentiment of the comments is misguided understanding of a proper raw diet for an animal. I’ll try to comment on each con argument against raw just to give raw, and Kap’s possible adventure into raw, a little more bite.
First of all, people are claiming there is no substantiation to the claims that raw feeding improves health, has any benefits, etc. Where is the evidence that dogs are doing amazingly well on processed kibble, whether Blue Buffalo, Orijen or Purina? Plus, many of the comments already stated the additions made to kibble such as [some are what I used] wet food, fish oil, pumpkin, yogurt, cinnamon, salmon oil, coconut oil, fruit, veggies and cooked meats. Kibble is supposed to have the full nutrition and if so, would not require any further foods. So it seems that people tend to supplement with fresher ingredients. Regardless, what sources prove that the last 60 years are our dog’s best years, all due to kibble? Modern vet medicine and further human advancement will also play into all arguments. By the way, my last dog died at 11 from Cushings and was on kibble and treats. We could argue that the corn based food my mother fed her while I was in college caused her body to degrade and become susceptible to disease. I’m not. Just pointing out that one shouldn’t say raw has no proven selling points because, honestly, neither does kibble. Other than convenience. One might say laziness but I’ll stick to convenience. And that’s also Marketing, telling you that kibble is the best option. Difference is raw has no food labels to WOW you with. Some vets get sponsored by kibble companies, fyi, and vets, like doctors, generally aren’t fully trained nutrition experts.
People referencing feeding grains are acceptable seems like a strange argument. There are paleo diets that restrict grains in humans because thousands of years ago people didn’t cook and eat grains the way we do now, so how likely is it that wolves ate grains? Safe to say they probably didn’t. Most of the time wolves will shake the contents of the stomach out anyway. As for dogs, dog allergies are through the roof these days with allergies to corn, wheat, soy and dairy. Safe to say the dogs already covered this topic. Grains in kibble and raw food are useless.
Blood thirst is also a myth. My dog doesn’t eat any other dogs while at the dog park, nor does he eat my cats, neighbors or bunnies outside. That’s a personality trait that is learned or performed out of instinct.
Regarding sickness of the young, old and currently sick, there may be an argument there against owning a pet, but against raw I’m not sure. Dogs eat other animals poop, have bugs that crawl on them (fleas and ticks), find dead animals, play with sticks, ingest kibble that has previously had food recalls for salmonella, lick themselves and a whole slew of non-hygienic stuff. Not really sure how raw is the only offender worth citing. Most raw owners will feed outside or on a towel or clean the floor of any germs after the meals. As for the dogs mouth, very different from us, as is the digestive track, and can handle the germs. Humans need to practice safe house keeping when housing a young, old or sick human, and my initial reaction is that a raw dog poses no additional threat if the proper precautions are taken. I’ve never been sick and no one has gotten sick in my house, nor have any of the people we meet at the dog park.
This post was about education. I’m not actually trying to argue or start a war of words. I’m trying to educate folks to the other side, from someone that’s actually fed raw and lived that lifestyle with my dog. I prefer that my dog and I eat similarly. I like fresh foods and unprocessed foods, so my dog eats his version of my diet – raw bones, organs and meat. He has lamb hearts, beef kidneys, fish, beef, pork, tripe and lots of other raw foods. He’s on the doggie 80/10/10 diet [Vegan diet reference joke]. 80% muscle meats, 10% organs, 10% edible bone. He loves every bite and is happier when he eats. His future health will depend on many factors, food being one. Time will tell for me and my dog.
joemuggs says
I am also late to the party, but I must weigh in. Everything Dan said is exactly the problem with the promotion of raw feeding. There’s nothing in the argument but anecdotes. Kibble is formulated based on a standard that is backed by sound science. There have been numerous studies that has shown that there is little difference, nutritionally, between raw, cooked, and kibble, if formulated properly. There is a difference however when raw is fed, and that is that the pets have been shown to shed salmonella and other potentially harmful bacteria. There are of course more recalls of kibble than commercial raw pet food, but keep in mind that raw fed pets accounts for only 1% of all pets. Most people don’t seem to understand why anecdotes aren’t good evidence. Anecdotes are good in that they can show us a trend or correlation, bit until there is a properly controlled study on the matter, promoting the benefits of raw feeding as a fact is misleading and irresponsible. I’m absolutely not against raw feeding. There are many people who claim it works. That’s great! There’s just no evidence for it at this time.
Acroyali says
The only scientific evidence I need is the n=1, in which I took a seriously ill and debilitated dog and fed him raw (complete with salmonella, I’m sure) and watched him thrive and far surpass his projected life expectancy.
Salmonella is everywhere. Kibble, too, as the millions of recalls will tell us, along with listeria and aflatoxins. An awful lot of animals died in 2007 when Diamond screwed up Big Time. More readers I can count change to raw only because they’re sick of letting someone in the pet food industry tell them that they’re simply too stupid to feed their own pets, and leave it up to the “professionals”. My great grandparents fed a houseful of pets and didn’t need spreadsheets or scientific evidence, they just did it. And enjoyed having little to no vet bills and longevity.
Kibble is convenient. Just like McDonalds is convenient for us, until irreversible disease takes hold. While feeding several large animals, I could not afford Orijen or Ziwipeak, but I can certainly afford butcher scraps and the like (most butchers are happy to sell or give away scraps and are impressed you “make your own dog food”, so it’s a win win. No waste of meat, happy, healthy dogs).
Susan Thixton has an interesting site about whats REALLY in pet food, even the garbage marketed as “super duper ultra premium”! and how it’s made, then how you’re charged $90 for a 35 pound bag of crap. It’s disgusting.